Artist Conversations
With Karen Gayle
*Interview transcribed*
How did you establish your teaching practice?
The first and foremost thing is that I absolutely love what I do, and I think that energy comes from the fact that I really really love teaching. The minute I step into the studio–like the minute I hear the first 5, 6, 7, 8, *laughs* I think about all of the teachers and mentors I have had and I try to piece together all of the pearls that they dropped on me, and I try to share that.
I think that there are two approaches for everything: There's the “scare everyone into thinking a certain way” and fear aspect, and then there's the inspire aspect. I fully believe you can get so much out of fear. You will and you can scare people a certain amount and you will get something, but eventually, that will wear off. Long-term inspiration and motivation and just wanting to be doing what you are doing, to me, is much more effective. I think teaching is just like dancing and it's just like life. You don't walk into the room–contrary to what people believe. You get some tools, you know, but you learn as you go. I think everything, every year, everybody changes and I think you have to be open to that. I think one of the most important things for me is that you have to be prepared and then you have to be prepared to let it all go. When I walk in the room I always have a lesson plan ready, but then you can't hold onto that. If the vibe isn't there, you have to close that book and let it go with what is happening. Today might not be the day for that lesson, tomorrow might be the day for that lesson. My final thing is–it might not be dance, but–you should feel like whatever time you spent in a class can be used in any form or any way. If it’s a dance class, that's fantastic. But if it's not, you should still be able to walk away and have a life path or career in anything and still be able to use the lessons of that class.”
You give your students weekly quotes. Where did you get this idea? Where did you get the idea of doing weekly quotes in class?
It's funny because it's just a personal thing. I've always loved quotes. I have them on board, write them down. They're so much more prevalent now because of Pinterest and social media. Everybody has a quote. But before that, you had to actually search for a quote.
I think it started on MLK or Veteran’s Day, and then it opened up discussions. I'd say, let me just drop this and let it be, but people are always reaching out–like, during mid-term evaluations, people always are like, “Oh I needed to hear that!” In all of my classes everywhere I teach, I start the week off looking for a quote that seems fitting for the week, and then I just share it. I've had so many people say that I will say a quote that they've heard before, maybe a couple of years ago, but for some reason, at that moment it just reads differently.
What wisdom from now do you wish you knew as a student and what habits or practices from your student years do you wish you kept up with now?
One of the things I wish I had known is tenacity is really the key. I think a lot of times people think I'm not technical enough, I'm not flexible enough, I'm not this enough, I'm not that enough. I think if you are tenacious, focused, and determined, any of those things will follow.
It's hard for us to have such thick skin. Dancers have to look at themselves all day in the mirror. The way a dancer grows is by being critiqued. I mean, there are so many other genres that do not get critiqued. They do what they do. They get a yes or no box, but our growing process is all about people telling us what we are doing wrong. It's about breaking us down into little pieces, and that's a really hard thing to take on on a daily basis. What happens is that for most people, that breaks them. Understandably.
I wish I had known then not to take it personally and to just take everybody's point as their viewpoint and build my own and keep at it. I think back then I would've been like, “Oh, I auditioned for this and I got cut. They don’t like me? That's it. They are dead to me. I am never coming back.” And that is so far from it. It's just they didn't want you right then and there. That doesn't mean that you can't go away and improve on this and come back another time, and I really wish I had known that. I was definitely one of those “forget about it” people. Looking back, all the people I know who accomplished some of their dreams, it was never on the first take, it was always after returning and coming back and sticking to it.
The thing I would keep doing now is trying everything. I tried anything anywhere. I'm from Toronto and anytime I would come to New York for a week, I would stay at my uncle’s out in Brooklyn, get on the train and go to BDC and take a class. I’d go to Ailey and take a class, I’d go to Steps and take a class, and I wouldn't even think about it. I would look at the schedule and be like, “That looks great,” and I would just take it. Now, I would probably pause and wonder “So what's the class going to be like…”. I don't think I would have that, blind, just walk in the room and see what happens. And I think that's great because everyone needs to leave their comfort zone every once in a while and just try something new.
Do you think you put that filter on for yourself because you are an experienced professional now?
I definitely think so. I think when you are first trying, you don't know the limits as much, and once you put limits on yourself, it inhibits your creativity. I really try to teach in class to stop aiming for perfection. When students and dancers aim for perfection, it is almost like the kiss of death. They're actually setting themselves up for a specific vision in their head. They don't know that it is the ___ of art. You know great art actually comes, half of the time, accidentally–it's like they were aiming for one thing, and then they got this, or they were looking for this, and they turned up with this.
Considering all that has happened from of course covid, mental health stress of trying to live half normal these days, to public health, to social injustices in our country and of course the stress of the presidential election, how do you think we as people should move forward, and what new ways do you think the dance industry should move forward?
I have two reactions: The first one is I am unbelievably impressed with the dance community and how we didn't even hesitate. We just 5, 6, 7, 8, on Zoom. If you asked me a year ago if I thought it was possible to fully teach a dance class, much less Horton, remotely I would say “Y’all are crazy, this isn't gonna work,”. I still think back to the first couple weeks of the shutdown and how everybody–whether it was on Facebook, Instagram Live, or outdoors–how the dance community didn’t even pause. We were just like, “We gotta keep dancing.” Some of the best videos I have ever seen came out in those first few weeks. People editing on their phones, companies putting out reels, libraries releasing footage that we have never seen before, you know. I’m still actually in awe.
People ask me “Oh, are you still teaching dance?” and I'm like, “Oh, we are working!” We’re doing our thing. People are shocked to learn that we are still doing what we can because we just can't sit still for that long. I'm super impressed that we just kept things going. I'm impressed with the ideas that have come out. I think site-specific is going to soar, outdoor festivals are going to soar, multimedia; people are going to figure out how to use dance in a new way. I think we are on the cusp of a new reality. One of the things I said to my students is that I had a friend who was in a relationship for a long time. They broke off the wedding, and she had to tell everyone that it wasn’t gonna happen. They went into therapy for about 2 years, then 3 years later, they did get married and are together for now. When I had a conversation with her and asked her how she got out of that, she said they were trying so hard to be the people they were when they first met, and that wasn't working. The minute they let go of that and embraced their current reality of their relationship, it changed. I feel like that's exactly where we are with covid. I think if we grasp onto the old reality of how the arts and dance were, we will cripple ourselves. I think the minute we just say “Okay that was great, but we have to find a new relationship with dance,” things will change. Some things are going to go back to the way they were, and some things are going to change, but we have to embrace the fact that we are starting in a new zone, and once we do that, creative juices are going to flow.
In 10 to 20 years from now, people are going to react the same way we think things aren't normal. Like, “Oh, you went to the grocery store without a mask, wow”, Who knows what the next thing will be. We don't know if in 10 years from now theaters will be spaced out, or the vaccine will work. But there are certain things that aren't gonna change now that people have seen it. I can see people on Zoom rehearsing a lot more, even when the studios open up. I can see people being like, “We can't afford to fly this choreographer in from Italy, but we are gonna set up the TV and we will be taught to Zoom and space it ourselves,”. In terms of the social and mental, and the injustices, we are always a reflection of society. Whatever is happening out there is also reflected by the dance community. We deal with it in a different way.
What I'd love for us, honestly, is to have a stronger union. The dancers piggyback on everything else. We piggyback on musicians’ unions, on actors’ unions, we slip into AGMA, and we slip into SAG, but there's no fully-effective dancers’ union where you can get health insurance and mental healthcare. It's ironic. I once did a show where they didn't turn the heat on until the musicians arrived. I think those things need to be addressed specifically to the dance world.
About Karen Gayle
Originally from Toronto, Karen began her formal training in the Claude Watson Arts Program. After moving to New York, she furthered her studies at The Ailey School where she fell in love with the Horton technique. Karen has had the honor of performing the works of such choreographers as Earl Mosley, Ronald K. Brown and Tony winner Hinton Battle.
She has taught at Ballet Hispanico, The Ailey Extension, The School at Columbia University, Horace Mann, New Dance Group, and is currently a faculty member at Steps on Broadway, Marymount Manhattan College, Montclair State University and The Joffrey Ballet School. She has had the opportunity to guest teach and choreograph across the U.S. and abroad, including Canada, Mexico, Bolivia, Italy, Cyprus, and Israel and is a faculty member of Techniche Danza Moderna.
Choreography commissions include: Marymount Manhattan College, The Harvard Ballet Company, Steps Repertory Ensemble, General Mischief Dance Theatre, The Boston Tea Party Opera, Steffi Nossen, Earl Haig High School and Montclair State University. As artistic director of the xodus dance collective, her choreography has been showcased at such iconic concert dance venues as: American Dance Guild Festival, DUMBO Dance Festival, Movement Research at Judson Church, the Downtown Dance Festival, JPAC, Here Arts Center, The Ailey Theatre, The Queen Elizabeth Theatre in Toronto and the Inside/Out Festival at Jacob's Pillow.
Photos by Mike Peters